Padded Armour

[Robert Vermaat]

John I have seen some hemp canvas thats woven course like this. I have actually made my loculla (sp) from this type of hemp.

I've been busy with two-layered pturiges, linen on top of hemp canvas..

[John M McDermott]

Wow! Great websites.

How about a three layered pteruge. Leather backing, with a hardened felt core and a decorative facing?

[aitor iriarte]

In case the pterugae were made of fabric (one layer or two, tablet woven or not), fringes would appear naturally, excluding the necessity for a mid-layer of cloth just for creating them (The fringes, I mean). Perhaps leather was not needed at all, remember the linothorax.
The soumak border stitching at the Prima Porta statue would be really at home on a cloth pterugae, to keep two layers together or just to reinforce the border of a on-layered pteruga...
We are really making steady advances towards a previously unsuspected point!

Aitor

[Robert Vermaat]

This is one of my smaller pturiges, (b&w image for better contrast), naturally occurring fringes:

[tlclark]

Great post, one warning.

In the image below, for example, I do not know how you would achieve this effect on fabric- but it is relatively easy with tooled leather.
http://astro.temple.edu/~tlclark/lorica ... itdeta.jpg

This one is meant to be a personification of the province of Britian (or somewhere else) so it is likely meant to be a "fantasy" piece, so it's not the best source, but it shows such things were possible.

[tlclark]

In case the pterugae were made of fabric (one layer or two, tablet woven or not), fringes would appear naturally, excluding the necessity for a mid-layer of cloth just for creating them (The fringes, I mean).

I agree, the fringe is a most likely a clue to its manufacture.

We are really making steady advances towards a previously unsuspected point!

Aitor

Undoubtedly!!

Now someone needs to make a felt/linen pterugion, and a weft-faced wool one and we then need to compare them to the artwork.

Travis

[aitor iriarte]

Robert,
I assume that your pteruga, even if thin-looking, is two-layered. Have you considered making the fringes longer and, perhaps, thicker?

Travis,
Maybe this spring/summer, if I get previously rid of some other matters, I couls start experimenting with all this subarmalis/pterugae affair. I'm after some nice brass lion heads for the halbround upper rows... 8)

Aitor

[Robert Vermaat]

Robert, I assume that your pteruga, even if thin-looking, is two-layered. Have you considered making the fringes longer and, perhaps, thicker?

Are the pturiges of the several tetrarch statues also fringed?

[aitor iriarte]

No, they haven't Robert. But they are rendered featureless an oversimplifyed, because porphyry is not suitable to get small-scale details...




Notwithstanding, other late depictions, like the Barletta statue or the Honorius dyptich show conspicuous fringes. 8)

Aitor

[Robert Vermaat]

While we're on this subject, any any idea why these pturiges (pturigae?) seem so much more stiff or else attached to a sleeve, especially with the upper ones which also seem much longer than the earlier versions?

[aitor iriarte]

Robert,
I wouldn't scrutinize the Venice Tetrarch's in search of correct proportions or fine detail...
They were intended to be placed high on columns and the sculptors (each pair was carved by a different hand) weren't concerned about realism. Even if the shoes and swords (specially the hilts) are more finely rendered, the pteruges are stiffly and schematically portrayed. It is clear that it would be rather easier to depict those at the elbows in a tube-like fashion than to try to be realistic and portrait the individual pterugae hanging freely... :roll:
I've been long thinking on this subject and I'd only take from these statues the idea of shoulder pterugae in three lengths, and that with reserve, because it is an unicum, AFAIK... :?

Aitor

[Luca]

Robert! You were faster than me. In fact I'm very slowly try to do the same, but with longer fringes.

I agree with Aitor, the Venice statue is considered the first example of "medioeval" art, in the sense that the "sense" has overruled the importance of the form. So some details "could" be suppressed.

[Theodosius the Great]

Avete,

With all this experimental archeology going on, I have to ask : might it be presumptous to assume that Roman pteruges had to have a protective effect ? I remember Matthew Amt saying something to the effect that the Romans were slavishly devoted to fashion.

That being the case, could pteruges be merely a purely decorative feature ? Perhaps they merely wanted their attire to hark back to the Hellenistic age for nastalgic reasons ?

[John M McDermott]

I would inquire as to the protective properties of glue. The Romans were also fascinated by clever combinations of materials to produce a defense. We have been pondering the type and weave of fabric as opposed to the stuff that would hold it all together.

[tlclark]

I would inquire as to the protective properties of glue. The Romans were also fascinated by clever combinations of materials to produce a defense. We have been pondering the type and weave of fabric as opposed to the stuff that would hold it all together.

Well if it is a heavy tablet or tapestry woven weft-faced band, it would have required no glue, though those fabrics can be felted to produce tighter stiffer and denser fabric.

If it is a laminate no glue may be needed. The pteruges look flexible, but not nearly as stiff as early greek counterparts on the linothorax, suggesting that the glue was not terrible stiff if used.

Travis