Roman battlefield found deep inside Germany

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

A good concise summary report. Thanks!

[Arminius Primus]

Ave,

CNN International is now running a news report on the battlefield find. They have interviews with the head of the local archaeology office and some of the people on the field site. They also have put in shots from the Gladiator movie to explain the coin with the Commodus image and the large number of ballista bolts.

Given this recent publicity surge, Methinks this site will be well funded.

Regards from a very Snowy and cold Scupi, and Christmas Greetings to all of our Orthodox friends.

Arminius Primus, aka Al

[Tiberius Clodius Corvinus]

CNN International is now running a news report on the battlefield find.

here it is

the article: http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europ ... index.html

the video: http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/europ ... nnSTCVideo

[caiusbeerquitius]

Finally we know that "Gladiator" is "pretty historically accurate"... :roll: :lol:

[P. Clodius Secundus]

Sounds like the Germans tried the old Teutoburger Wald ploy. I guess they didn't get the memo about those new carroballistae. Things turn out a lot different when your artillery is able to be brought into action immediately while still mounted.

[Simplex]

......"Kalefeld" on CNN ?! So soooo ... !? :roll:
....now Entertainment and Politicians are taking over ? :wink:
Now history has to be rewritten according to Hollywood.
(I've always suspected that 8) !)

Greez

Simplex

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

CNN is a news channel, why not?
SKY snooze?

[Matthew Amt]

The Germans seem to have been very unconcerned about collecting weapons for re-use or recycling. After Teutoberg Forest, they gathered up all the Roman gear and left it in piles in their sacred groves.

The key word here is "sacred" -- it wasn't that the Germans were "unconcerned", but that they were indeed "re-using" weaponry as dedications to their gods.

We know from finds in Denmark and France that captured gear was often dumped in bogs and lakes.

Again, in case anyone gets the wrong idea, "dumped" is a terribly loaded term. The captured gear was probably dedicated to the watery gods.

Mea maxima culpa, you are absolutely right! I worded that all wrong. What I meant was that the stuff was not necessarily collected for re-use as weapons or for the metal content. Sacrificial use was clearly a high priority, which had a very long tradition by that point.

Somewhere in Britain there is a site which was apparently an artillery practice range.

You're probably thinking of Burnswark, which I have argued was actually under siege. (The older theory, that it was an artillery range, seems very unlikely to me, but still pops up from time to time.)[/quote]

Yeah, Burnswark is the place, and yeah, I don't recall which old book I saw that in. The practice range is a neat idea, but I'm happy with an actual seige!

Valete,

Matthew

[D B Campbell]

Yeah, Burnswark is the place, and yeah, I don't recall which old book I saw that in. The practice range is a neat idea, but I'm happy with an actual seige!

If we twist Jasper's arm, he might let me write about it for Ancient Warfare magazine! :wink:

[Mar]

Sounds like the Germans tried the old Teutoburger Wald ploy. I guess they didn't get the memo about those new carroballistae. Things turn out a lot different when your artillery is able to be brought into action immediately while still mounted.

I guess "they" just couldn´t imagine how the Romans should have brought their carroballistae up that hill. :wink:

[SigniferOne]

Sorry to bring this up again, but does anyone have ideas as to what the Romans were doing so far up north? And with such a large army.. and in the 3rd century? It boggles the mind!

I mean, tentative punitive raids across the Rhine are one thing. A couple of legions traveling to Northern Germany armed to the teeth with scorpios and carrhoballistae is something else entirely...



PS. The axe-head is puzzling as well. I was under the impression that axes hadn't come into Germanic usage until the Middle Ages...

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Looks Roman to me, the axe head.

[jkaler48]

Looks Roman to me, the axe head.

The axe head is in the same style as other axe heads found in Roman
contexts including some from the UK. (One from Cameron and one found at Newstead)
Photos here: Yahoo roman gear group

[MD]

Sorry to bring this up again, but does anyone have ideas as to what the Romans were doing so far up north? And with such a large army.. and in the 3rd century? It boggles the mind!

I mean, tentative punitive raids across the Rhine are one thing. A couple of legions traveling to Northern Germany armed to the teeth with scorpios and carrhoballistae is something else entirely...

Caracalla in 213 AD and later Maximinus Thrax in 235 campaigned personally against the Alamanni. Both had assembled large forces, including reinforcements from the east.

Especially Herodian's description of Maximinus campaign seems fit well with the location of the battlefield.

After leaving Mogontiacum and crossing the Rhine his first goal was probably to secure the Roman territories east of the river, the northern part of Agri Decumates. Then attacking the Germanic settlements near modern Kassel, which is just around 100 km away from the Wetterau, the most northern tip of Rome's territories east of the Rhine. The route was used regularly by Roman armies campaigning against the Chatti since Drusus times. If the Germans had deserted their settlements as described by Herodian, Maximinus could have decided to pursue them further north. Kalefeld is around 70 km away from Kassel, so only a few day marshes.

7.2: Maximinus' War against the Alamans

Having settled affairs in the manner described above, Maximinus led out his entire army and crossed the bridge fearlessly, eager to do battle with the Germans. Under his command was a vast number of men, virtually the entire Roman military force, together with many Moorish javelin men and Osrhoenian and Armenian archers; some were subject peoples, others friends and allies, and included, too, were a number of Parthian mercenaries and slaves captured by the Romans.

This enormous force was originally assembled by Alexander, but it was increased in size and trained for service by Maximinus. The javelin men and archers seemed to be especially effective against the Germans, taking them by surprise, attacking with agility and then retreating without difficulty.

Though he was in enemy territory, Maximinus advanced for a considerable distance because all the barbarians had fled and he met no opposition. He therefore laid waste the whole country, taking particular care to destroy the ripening grain, and burned the villages after allowing the army to plunder them. Fire destroys the German towns and houses very quickly.

...

The Germans had left the plains and treeless areas and were hiding in the forests; they remained in the woods and marshes so that the battle would have to take place where the thick screen of trees made the missiles and javelins of their enemies ineffectual and where the depths of the marshes were dangerous to the Romans because of their unfamiliarity with the region. The Germans, on the contrary, were well acquainted with the terrain and knew which places provided firm footing and which were impassable. They moved rapidly and easily through the marshes, in water only knee-deep. (The Germans, who do all their bathing in the rivers, are expert swimmers.)

[jkaler48]

The loss of shovels and axes makes me wonder if they were being used
in either a defensive or offensive manner (eg Building or defeating fortifications) I can imagine the Romans having to breach German
wooden stakes/palisade with the axes and shovels. I wonder if any evidence
of this has been/will be found when excavation begins.