ROMAN BAGPIPES

[John M McDermott]

I have a memory of being told that bagpipes are not Scottish or Irish. The story goes that the ancient Picts picked up a type of instrument from the Roman Army that evolved into the present day bagpipe. Anyone care to comment, debunk or support? <p></p><i></i>

[JRSCline]

As this has more to do with the history of piping than the reconstruction of them, we'll move this to the History & Archaeology forum. Carry on!<br>
<br>
Jenny <p></p><i></i>

[Aluscladiusmaximus]

I have seen a picture somewhere of a pair of roman bagpipes and I think they predate their use by the scottish. I also seem to remember that someone used to make a set of "roman" bagpipes I think it was sold by the early music center<br>
<br>
Regards Alus claudis Maximus <p></p><i></i>

[scythius]

<br>
The late David Marshall did a great deal of research in reconstructing conjectural Roman instruments:<br>
<br>
www.ancestral.co.uk/romanmusic.htm<br>
<br>
The bagpipes are a mediterranean instrument - and as far as I know, the earliest depiction is from a Hittite site in Turkey (don't remember which one, off-hand).<br>
<br>
Scythius <p>Scythius<br>
LEG IX HSPA - COH III EXPG - CEN I HIB<br>
<br>
- FIDELITAS - - VIRTUS - - MAGNANIMITAS - </p><i></i>

[naso]

The way I understand it the bagpipes were one of those things that were developed simultaneously among several cultures so I don't know that any one culture can claim to be the originator. Of Course the Scots and Irish made it an art<br>
<br>
Naso <p></p><i></i>

[John M McDermott]

Thanks to Scythius for the website. Bagpipes are easy to march to and very motivating. The Scottish regiments seem to love to use them for martial music. I can't help wondering if the Roman Army made use of them as well. <p></p><i></i>

[Hibernicus]

When we do displays at Scottish Highland Games we pass out a flyer detailing Roman Scotland websites;<br>
<br>
We also talk about the Roman influence of what later became Scotland, very informative, well received.<br>
<br>
.. we also play with the local psyche ... BWAHAHAHA...by suggesting that some of the the oldest known "plaid" pattern in cloth was found in a Roman context, that commercial sheep production was brought by the Romans, that the infamous "9th Legion" (that didn't disappear) came from region in Europe that was known to have bagpipes (no evidence for bagpipes in Alba befoire that), that if it wasn't for the Romans wiping out rebellious Picts and Caledonni the Scotii (who are really Irish) never woudl have been able to migrate from Ireland to Alba in order to become Scots..and oh yeah... we Romans also brought that religion though you modified it later on....<br>
<br>
Okay so we tweak things a bit....<br>
<br>
Hibernicus<br>
<p></p><i></i>

[JRSCline]

Oldest known plaids...<br>
<br>
No question, plaids were around long before Scotland and Ireland. While at the Cairo Egyptian museum recently, I took some lovely photos of an assemblage of very finely woven linen plaids from Roman Egyptian contexts (a horse stable, apparently, judging from the abysmal placard in the case). This plaid fabric, intact, would make a very nice buttonned short-sleeve shirt for a modern-day man, in fact. Red and yellow; large stripe bordered by thinner ones.<br>
<br>
Jenny <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

sights.seindal.dk/<br>
Jenny, this is the link for the Seindal site, where you can find the most complete collection of roman sculpture, bronzes and mosaics on the net. In there you will find... somewhere (It's a HUGE site) the bust of a roman matrona wearing a striped pallium looking exaclty like that: large and narrow stripes.<br>
I think it's in the Naples museum but I'm not sure.<br>
Incidentally there are also two bronze deers that I would not mind keeping egotistically for myself into my private collection, if I had one..<br>
..And a few hilarious (for me at least) erotic sculptures..<br>
On bagpipes. It's not only the Scots and the Irish it's also the Bretons. Their instrument is smaller than the bagpipe and is called a "biniou".<br>
Dunno where the bagpipe comes from, but I never saw a representation of such an instrument in ancient mediterranean art..<br>
Maybe in Mesopotamia? <p></p><i>Edited by: <A HREF=http://p200.ezboard.com/bromanarmytalk.showUserPublicProfile?gid=antoninuslucretius@romanarmytalk>Antoninus Lucretius</A> <IMG HEIGHT=10 WIDTH=10 SRC="http://lucretius.homestead.com/files/Cesar_triste.jpg" BORDER=0> at: 5/5/04 10:22 am<br></i>

[JRSCline]

A.L., thanks for the site! (P.S. OT: did you check in at the new Castra Praetoria yet?)<br>
<br>
<p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

I am not sure the origins, but certainly they date "prehistory" and are NOT just scottish and irish. There were, at one time, a version of the bagpipe in almost every European nation and throughout Asia and parts of Africa as well. Check out this website: www.hotpipes.com/main.html<br>
I love the Bohemian Dudelsack...wow!<br>
Currently I have a friend that makes pipes making an 18th century french set of pipes (cornemuse) for me. I can't wait for them!!<br>
<br>
Isaac <p></p><i></i>

[Anonymous]

I'm just really glad you typed 'suggesting' in there otherwise you would have had me on my Soap Box<br>
<br>
Brude <p></p><i></i>