Hoplite Shield Designs

by **hoplite14gr** » Wed 14 Mar 2007, 16:56

What do you mean epirus regiment?
Please elaborate.

Kind regards

by **Hoplitesmores** » Wed 14 Mar 2007, 18:28

Any special emblems used by in the Epirus region

by **hoplite14gr** » Thu 15 Mar 2007, 6:12

Still under resaearch. sorry.
Kind regards

by **Zenodoros** » Sun 18 Mar 2007, 3:18

Just some clarification for Spartan mora shield designs, exactly who wore which ones? In particular, which soldiers used the dokona as their emblem? Also, did the Spartan kings continue to wear the solar symbol (see avatar) after the Persian wars?

Thanks in advance!

by **hoplite14gr** » Sun 18 Mar 2007, 11:07

Each Mora was recruited in a specific region. Each region had the patron deity whose emblem was carried upon the shield.
Spartan Royal Bodyguards used Dokana. Those 2 hoplites who flanked and protected the King were aloso Olympic champions and caried olive wraiths on their helemts.
The King had also priestly duties and his rank was respected till the days of Navis. Chances are that the Solar symbol and the Dokana were retained until the time of Navis but probably on thyreoi rather than hoplite shields at that time.

After 400 B.C. the LAMBDA was adopted for everyone elso so that the Perioikoi or drafted Helots could not be destinguised from the HOMIOI citizens.

by **Zenodoros** » Mon 19 Mar 2007, 1:39

Thanks a lot!

Could you tell me which morae used which design from this image? (Ignore the lamvtha, just the first 8 symbols).

http://www.spartanminiatures.com/sp3.GIF

I understand the cat/leopard silhouette was worn by the Pylos mora (according to the "Spartan attack" thread), but I'm unsure about the others.

Also were these only worn by homoioi?

by **hoplite14gr** » Mon 19 Mar 2007, 14:27

The emblems as appear on the link you provided, are most probably of the Perioikoi complemet of each Mora.
The rest of of the info that you ask are on page 6 of this thread.

Kind regards

by **Zenodoros** » Tue 20 Mar 2007, 0:36

Sorry, I missed that on the last page - thanks a lot.

Particularly interesting is the inverted red/white dokona for either Dorian or Achaean bodyguards.

by **Zenodoros** » Sat 31 Mar 2007, 9:10

sorry for the bump, but this thread is extremely useful, especially with Stefanos' wealth of info.

I want to illustrate some Lokrian hoplites, and would like to know what blazons they used... the most commonly seen seems to be a four-winged symbol, of which I don't know the importance behind. Would Ajax the lesser and Patroklus (a Lokrian, I think?) appear on their shields too? Any particulary designs?

Thanks in advance to whoever answers.

by **hoplite14gr** » Sat 31 Mar 2007, 14:21

Central mainland Greece is under research and it will be late I am afraid as the Ancient Marines are currently ongoing project.
As for the 4 winged symbol for Locrians what are the references?
The only 4 winged symbols we managed to find are not connected with the Locrians. Plus most Cenrtal Greeks at the time seem to be mostly peltasts and ekdromoi

Be weary of marketing depictions like the "black clad Thespians".
If you do that for a publisher ask him for references.

For example you see in the issue of the traverse crest I provided references.

Hope it helps

by **Zenodoros** » Sun 01 Apr 2007, 6:37

The four winged symbol I was actually quite weary about claiming as accurate, since the only times I've seen it are in modern depictions.

In Hegemonia city-states mod for R:TW, the Lokrian hoplite has it on his shield: http://img489.imageshack.us/img489/9799 ... ite8ww.jpg

The faction symbol is also the winged blazon, of which is supposedly meant to be a 'wheel' dedicated to either Ajax or Herakles, but I haven't heard of anything concrete regarding it.

This painted miniature from Seil shows the same design for a Central Greek hoplite: http://www.seilmodel.com/v2/src/product ... de=SB20002

I have also seen it depicted in another modern illustration.

I'm wondering how much truth there is to these costumes... for one thing, were double crests widespread in Central Greece at all?

I have been commissioned to do an art piece of Thermopylae for a gaming mod, and I want the costumes to be as true to history as I can. So on the subjects of the Thespian melanochitonai you mentioned, how are they twisted by the marketers? I was never certain about the black armour (seems a bit much), I was also unsure of whether or not they wore their cloaks in battle at all.

by **hoplite14gr** » Sun 01 Apr 2007, 6:56

A general would have exceptional helmet decoration.
The cloak issue has been discussed in the Â¨Red cloaksÂ¨ thread.

Naturally you haven' read anything because about "4-wings" related with the heroes you mentioned because the pottery showing it has nothing to do with Locris.

They only thing we deduced is that the wave-pattern is Doric and most probably related with the Hylleis tribe.

Ajax of Oileus was a Locrian hero but we must relate symbols with him before we say anything. As I said we still search but for the time Aegean comes first and Central Greece will follow.
I am anxious too because I come from this area but we cannot do everything at the same time. We must work for a living in parallel.

Kind regards

by **Zenodoros** » Mon 02 Apr 2007, 0:07

Thanks for the info, Stefanos.

I think I'll show the Lokrians side on with the interior of their shield showing, so I don't have to run into any problems.

by **Gladius Hispaniensis** » Thu 05 Apr 2007, 1:05

After 400 B.C. the LAMBDA was adopted for everyone elso so that the Perioikoi or drafted Helots could not be destinguised from the HOMIOI citizens.

Stefanos, two questions:
Why was it important for the Helots to not be distinguished from the Homioi?
What exactly did the lambda emblem stand for?

by **hoplite14gr** » Thu 05 Apr 2007, 3:11

"L" stnds for LAKEDAEMON.
Until freed the helot was property of the state and the L initially marked him as such.

The effort for the Helots not to be distinguished from the Homioi was so that the enemy could not arrange themselves in a way to neutralize the Homioi or take heart beliving that they would make short work of the Lakonian army considering the Helots inferior troops.

Kind regards

by **Hoplitesmores** » Sun 06 May 2007, 8:52

Macedonian Archaeological Sites and Objects-lots on visual on shields

http://people.clemson.edu/~elizab/Maced ... Athanasios
http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s130 ... t=7bc8.jpg

by **Giannis K. Hoplite** » Wed 05 Sep 2007, 2:31

Stefane,I always remember to ask this in the inapropriate time,so here it is:
In your theory about shield emblems-lets take Sparta as only an example-you have categorised them in morae(one main separation at least).
So you speak of the emblem of the mora of Sparta,the gorgoneion,for example,or of Elos,the upside down horned bull etc.What picture do you have in mind,a whole mora,one sixth of the spartan army, having the same shield emblem,even in different fashions?Or even the majority of them having the same emblem.Or just in great frequency?I find that a bit strange.
Or for example,you connect some emblems with specific towns or islands,what do you think of them,that the majority of hoplites had this emblem on their shield,or your conclusion is that this emblem was just another one among the hundreds the existed in the town?
Khaire
Giannis

by **hoplite14gr** » Wed 05 Sep 2007, 4:42

Before 600 B.C the clan-family emblem dominates.
Spartan Elos mora example (roughly between 600 B.C to 400 B.C)
Not all hoplites are Homioi.
All Homioi sport the black bull on red background. The perimeter of the shields has one of the 3 decorations depending on which Doric tribe the hoplite belongs. The perioikoi probably had a black bull on the bronze facing and probably triangles on the perimeter being Acheans.
The file leaders probably have high crests and the merarchos probably traverse crest.
Between 600 B.C to 500 B.C the hoplite's personal emblem might appear on the shield base on pottery evidence but this is unlikely after 500 B.C.

In other city states the "national" emblem started appearing after the overthrow of monarchy or tyrrany. Though aristocrats kept their own emblems, the majority of the new hoplites adopted the new "popular" emblem - remeber party politcs are very strong in Greece.

Kind regards

by **Giannis K. Hoplite** » Wed 05 Sep 2007, 4:56

Something else.You usually speak also about colors of not only the emblems but also of the backgrounds.What about the "shiny bronze shields" and the mention of Xenophon that the homoioi usually polish the bronze of their shield in order to shining?
Also,you know that in pottery only some specific colors acan be used:Black,red,deep red-broun,purple that looks much like red,and white,later becoming yellow-white,to indicate bronze.Also you can understand that it's impossible for the vase painter to use the actual colors that were used on a shield.So,how ca you speak of the colors of the emblems and backgrounds of the shields,and how do you support that they had to do with the identification of the mora or city?
Khaire
Giannis

PS.Yes I know how passionate Greeks can be about politics,and also I know how passionate they used to be in antiquity,too.

by **PMBardunias** » Wed 05 Sep 2007, 16:12

Why was it important for the Helots to not be distinguished from the Homioi?
What exactly did the lambda emblem stand for?

I seem to recall reading someplace a theory that the lambda first appeared on the shields of neodamodeis- freed Helots. This makes sense since they would have no heraldry of their own, or if they did the Spartiates would surely wish to supress it.

If true it would be Spartiates conforming to the new uniform standard, not helots looking like homoioi.

Hoplite Shield Designs

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