12-08-2012, 04:19 AM
Quote:Nothing in the above post makes much sense. It is almost entirely based on speculation.
Some call it speculation, others a list of "to do" in experimental archaeology. Cos if we are going to stick to archaeological evidence only in statistical terms what are we left of with if not with 10s of 1000s of depictions of armored soldiers and how many? 10? 20? 100? (I do not know, have not measured) depictions of quilted-like appearence. Which of course has at least as many chances to be leather-based than garment based.
Quote:You need to do a lot more research into quilted textile armours. There are many extant examples and even primary documents detailing exactly how they were made. The best textile defenses were made of multiple layers of cloth (up to thirty) with tight rows of quilting.
Certainly I should certainly. And I am the first to advice looking on other eras/cultures as the various solutions were pretty much known to everyone since early on and everyone picked what suited mostly his fighting style, economics and aristic inclinations. But of course as we know, assigning linen base to quilted representations in ancient Greece that would be for minority cases as most depictions show what seems to be metal or leather or some form of straight unquilted linen. If there was quilting on the inside - this is the speculation and there we do need the input of experimentation. In the very few depictions of quilted material, the linen-based quilting cannot be claimed as majoritative case over leather-based.
When referring to other eras we have to pinpoint too the type of use. Most medieval armies that used linen-based quilted armors were all about feudal guards or steppe riders - i.e. people who wore armour pretty much at peace as well as at war. Mongol riders were at all times ready to raid a village or two. Feudal guards, well that was their everyday job. In both cases rain is not a problem (the first is a standing post, the latter on a horse). Would these conditions apply to ancient Greek hoplites? These fought on foot out in the plain. And wore their armors only on campaigns. While their fighting style was totally day-and-night different to the styles of medieval feudal armies and steppe riders.
We have to bear in mind that quilted armors were most times associated with arrow and shock absorption something that was of course the lesser anxiety of hoplite warfare. Puffing volume into the armor was also not ideal as it reduced flexibility.
Quote:The Royal Armouries demonstrated that a quilted jack layered over a mail shirt can stop a heavy English longbow at short range.
Interesting. But then anyone can produce any results provided he chooses the right thicknesses and arrangements. However, ancient Greek thoraces while 3-dimensional and more voluminous than most modern reconstructions that produce them as garment-like, they were certainly not puffed-up like a quilted one would be. Experiments with quilting and arrows, spears can lead often to differing results as there are 100s of parameters to take into account. I have read of other results claiming quilting per weight offers a bit less of protection than unquilted against sharp blades. Which sounds to me more logical given the simple fact that loose layers slide over each other increasing the overall protection while quilting essentially keeps fabric in same position having to withstand the full force.
