Source of an anecdode: Catapults firing Jars of Snakes

[Sean Manning]

For my paper on ancient naval warfare I'm looking for the source of an anecdote about a Hellenistic admiral firing jars full of venomous snakes at the opposing fleet, to the discomfort of their crews ("We don't need no m* f* snakes on this m* f* quinquireme!"?). Its one of the few clear references to the use of stone-throwing engines on warships. I'm thinking Polyaenus or Fronto, but I can't remember where I saw it cited.

L. Sprague de Camp borrowed this in his Planet Krishna novel The Hand of Zei (1950).

[hoplite14gr]

for Helenistic I think you must look in Polyainos and Froninus Stratgems
but Snakes on naval battles are atributed to Arabs. some criniclers talk about it in the 1st siege of Konstantinoupolis 717. B.C.
Kind regards

[Robert Vermaat]

the 1st siege of Konstantinoupolis 717. B.C.

Wow! That is early for a city that received that name only a thousand years later... :wink:

[hoplite14gr]

whoops :oops:

For Helenistic I think you must look in Polyainos and Froninus Stratagems
but snakes on naval battles are atributed to Arabs. Some croniclers talk about it in the 1st siege of Konstantinoupolis 717. A.D.
Kind regards.

Guess it is better now :!:

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I thought you meant Byzantium...... :roll:

[Sean Manning]

Eureka! Frontinus, Strategems, 4.7.9-11 says as follows (from Lascus Curtius, Charles Bennet tr.)

9Gnaeus Scipio, in a naval combat, hurled jars filled with pitch and rosin among the vessels of the enemy, in order that damage might result both from the weight of the missiles and from the scattering of their contents, which would serve as fuel for a conflagration.

10Hannibal suggested to King Antiochus that he hurl jars filled with vipers among the ships of the enemy, in order that the crews, through fear of these, might be kept from fighting and from performing their nautical duties.

11Prusias did the same, when his fleet was by now giving way.

[hoplite14gr]

Seems chaliph Moabiah studied frontinus carefully but the Byzantines put their trust ot Greek Fire.
Kind regards

[Jona Lendering]

If I recall correctly, this is also mentioned for Trajan's siege of Hatra. Reference???? (In other words: I may be wrong.)

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

I bought an interesting book on the terror weapons of the ancients, haven't read it yet though!

[Jona Lendering]

If I recall correctly, this is also mentioned for Trajan's siege of Hatra. Reference???? (In other words: I may be wrong.)

Ha, I got it: Herodian 3.9, referring to insects from the pots.

[Sean Manning]

I still can't believe the Hannibal of the Second Punic War thought up the idea. He seems to have had a thing for exciting new uses for unfortunate animals to defeat his enemies: I'm remembering the thing with the stampeded cattle bearing torches. Harry Turtledove borrowed that one for his Misplaced Legion series.

[Eleatic Guest]

...anecdote about a Hellenistic admiral firing jars full of venomous snakes at the opposing fleet, to the discomfort of their crews...

But this is as far as ancient warfare got in chemical warfare. AFAIK, the use of poisonous gas remained unknown throughout antiquity, although such gas can be easily produced from a variety of natural plants and can be very effective during sieges in tunnel combat.

[D B Campbell]

Another interesting (i.e. artillery-related!) thread I missed this week. :roll:
But I see you boys have got it all figured out!

... gas can be easily produced from a variety of natural plants and can be very effective during sieges in tunnel combat.

But not as spectacular as a swarm of bees!

[Eleatic Guest]

Another interesting (i.e. artillery-related!) thread I missed this week. :roll:
But I see you boys have got it all figured out!

... gas can be easily produced from a variety of natural plants and can be very effective during sieges in tunnel combat.

But not as spectacular as a swarm of bees!

Where?

[Gaius Julius Caesar]

Greeks used hornets/wasps/bees quite a bit in the Peloponesian war and before I think..