Assyrian armour found in China

[kavan]

Archaeologists Find 2,700-Year-Old Assyrian-Style Leather Armour in China

http://www.sci-news.com/archaeology/assy...10352.html

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/ar...8221005553

[Dan Howard]

It is Subeixi or Scythian, not Assyrian. The one in the MET dates to the same time period.
https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/26565



We know what Assyrian-style scale armour looks like because of the dig at Nineveh and it looks nothing like this.

[Sean Manning]

Yeah, their only connection to the Assyrians seems to be that in the Bronze Age scale armour is best attested in southwest Asia, that C-14 dating and the style of artefacts in the graves are suggest it was buried between 786 and 543 cal BCE (95.4% probability), and:

In age, construction details and aesthetic appearance its closest parallel is the MET armour. The stylistic correspondence but functional specifics make the two armours appear as outfits for different units of the same army: the Yanghai armour possibly for light cavalry, the MET armour perhaps for heavy infantry. This degree of standardization of military equipment at the time under discussion was a characteristic feature of the Neo-Assyrian forces in the 7th century BCE. With all of the above in mind, we suggest that both leather scale armours were manufactured in the Neo-Assyrian Empire.

That last bit does not seem like a very good argument to me! I am scheduling a blog post on this article.

[Feinman]

Assyrian? What a conclusion! ;:-D

[Sean Manning]

If Alanus / Alan J. Campbell were still alive he could comment on their view that scale armour is not attested in the Eurasian steppes before this time. Its hard because body armour in general leaves little archaeological evidence (its too bulky to lose in everyday life and too expensive to discard), and leather scale armour leaves even less.

[Dan Howard]

Some of the earliest body armour on the planet is Eurasian. This Siberian bone corselet is dated to 1500-1900 BC.

[Sean Manning]

And here are my thoughts on the article https://www.bookandsword.com/2021/12/11/...m-yanghai/

[Feinman]

Nice article Sean! :-)
Here is a paper on the scale armour of the period:
https://www.academia.edu/6815493/Scale_A...d_A_Survey
It looks like tom Hulit is invoked. Apparently Seevers and Barron have decided that since little metal scale armour has been recovered compared to depictions in the reliefs, that it much of it must have been leather (hide). Ouch. That is a leap:
https://www.google.com/books/edition/Fig...r%20armour

[Sean Manning]

Apparently Seevers and Barron have decided that since little metal scale armour has been recovered compared to depictions in the reliefs, that it much of it must have been leather (hide). Ouch. That is a leap:
https://www.google.com/books/edition/Fig...r%20armour

I think its pretty likely that some of the Greek scale armour in the 6th/5th century BCE was made of hide, since it does not seem to survive very often. Being able to document that technology after the Late Bronze Age and before Dura-Europos is useful. But for an article like this, I would really like to see an argument that the Neo-Assyrians used leather scale armour, other than that it would have been cheaper and their armies were large.

There is so little armour from anywhere in early medieval Europe and the Islamic world, and that is not because it did not exist, but because they did not have the custom of burying it (and because iron mail rusts quickly).

Showing that this technology was widespread is cool, but they don't really make a case for linking hide scale armour with the Neo-Assyrians specifically.

[Feinman]

Apparently Seevers and Barron have decided that since little metal scale armour has been recovered compared to depictions in the reliefs, that it much of it must have been leather (hide). Ouch. That is a leap:
https://www.google.com/books/edition/Fig...r%20armour

I think its pretty likely that some of the Greek scale armour in the 6th/5th century BCE was made of hide, since it does not seem to survive very often. Being able to document that technology after the Late Bronze Age and before Dura-Europos is useful. But for an article like this, I would really like to see an argument that the Neo-Assyrians used leather scale armour, other than that it would have been cheaper and their armies were large.

There is so little armour from anywhere in early medieval Europe and the Islamic world, and that is not because it did not exist, but because they did not have the custom of burying it (and because iron mail rusts quickly).

Showing that this technology was widespread is cool, but they don't really make a case for linking hide scale armour with the Neo-Assyrians specifically.

Agreed! :-)

[Dan Howard]

Even if the Assyrians used leather scale armour, it would have been the same style as their metal scale armour, which looks nothing like the above Yanghai armour. Assyrian scale armour was very similar in style to the earlier scale armours used by Egyptians, Mitannians, Hittites, Mycenaeans, and so on. So their following statement is false as well:

"With the increasing use of chariots in Middle Eastern warfare, a special armor for horsemen was developed in the 9th century BCE."

This "special armour for horsemen" was developed in this region around seven hundred years earlier in the 16th century (some reckon that it was introduced by the Hurrians). The main difference between Assyrian scale armour and earlier scale armours in the same region was that the Assyrians used iron instead of bronze.

[Feinman]

Yeah, all the scales I've seen from the Assyrians are more rectilinear and rounded --of a totally different shape type than what is seen on those organic armours --like Egyptian scale finds, as you have mentioned. There is a lot of horizontal and vertical overlap seen in metal scale armours --just as much as can be seen in the hide examples, though it is easier to cut hide scales into fancy but more effective shapes. Weight is not an issue with the hide scale armour with either type of scale, so I don't think the change from chariot archers to horse archers would account for the scale change, though flexibility of the armour might be a concern. I absolutely love these hide scale armours --they work very well and are light and can be painted, and they are gorgeous, too.

[Feinman]

The paucity of finds is also probably due to an active metal recycling industry. There are also finds of caches and pots of varieties of scales that have been found together that has been interpreted as evidence for such an industry in Egypt. It's not surprising at all.

[Feinman]

It's astounding that things like glued linen armour and Assyrian leather scale (it must be theirs <in China!!>, D'oh, because we haven't found enough Assyrian armour), ever makes it to publication... Is this stuff peer reviewed??
I can't imagine Tom Hulit coming to that conclusion.

[Sean Manning]

It's astounding that things like glued linen armour and Assyrian leather scale (it must be theirs <in China!!>, D'oh, because we haven't found enough Assyrian armour), ever makes it to publication... Is this stuff peer reviewed??
I can't imagine Tom Hulit coming to that conclusion.

I was surprised to see Bret Devereaux, who covered ancient armour in his PhD thesis, sharing the article with no warning that the connection with Assyria is unlikely. This is a cool find, it lets us set the armour in the Met in context, but its not from the Assyrian empire or a copy of armour from the Assyrian empire.