Hun, Alan, Avar, and other Steppe Nomad Movements

[Flavivs Aetivs]

Do you have any evidence to support that statement. Mounted nomads were not recorded in Chinese records until the 4th century BC but they were not a united group and recorded them under the generic name Hu. With the founding of the Ch’in dynasty, these various groups were differentiated under three small groups on China’s northern border. They were the Yueh-Chih in the west, the Xiongnu in the Ordos region and the Tung-hu in the east. But these groups were not organised. The Xiongnu only became organised and developed the system after the Ch’in emperor attacked them to drive them north of the Yellow River. The Xiongnu were considered the weakest of the three groups and it was only after this aggression that they formed a federation and eventually overwhelmed their neighbours absorbing the Tung-hu and driving the Yueh-chih west before becoming more than a nuisance for the Han Chinese. I have not read anywhere that they borrowed the system of anyone else except maybe the Chinese and their imperial system would not be suitable for a mainly pastoral enterprise, .but as they used Chinese bureaucrats maybe the system developed over time. :-)

Judging by the evidence you present from Chinese history I must agree then that the Xiognu developed that system, but it still isn't evidence for a Hunnic-Xiongnu relation as many Altaic groups would have been using that system.

But by 387AD even Maenchen-Helfen admits on page 46 of his book that Eastern Hungary was Hun land. While on Charaton and Donatas, we only have a few lines from a fragment of Olympiodorus but I find it interesting that rather than saying all Huns were good archers, he states that the Kings of the Huns were good archers which to me indicates that the Huns had a system of installing relatives or close family members of the leadership over assorted conquered tribes.

The Huns could not have reached Hungary by 387 (other than federated troops in Rome or small military parties) because in 395 they attacked through the Caspian Gates. Heather brings this point up, saying the Huns could not have organized and launched a sustained campaign over the year 395 if they had to march all the way around the Black Sea.

The Hunnic power must have still been centered on the Don or East of the Maetois, even though some groups may have reached as far as the Dniester.

I do agree about Huns being in charge of some of their lesser groups, as Hunnic naming in the 6th century seems to suggest that.

I think you are mistaken with this author (Full name Hyun Jim Kim) who is Korean born Australian and I can assure you he is quite an accomplished scholar, etymologist, researcher and author and his work is recent. Among his mentors and people who have encouraged him to write this book are Doctor Timothy Rood of Oxford, Professor Peter Golden, Professor La Vaissiere, Professor Dan Potts & Professor David Christian, all experts in Inner and Central Asian & Turkish history and I can go on so I can only suggest that you are thinking of someone else.

I have the wrong person.