08-21-2018, 08:10 PM
Nathan Ross wrote:
Why are they 9 feet apart? Polybius (and you, in fact!) says there were three feet between ranks, just as there are between files in 'open order'.
I agree that the files are 3 feet apart in the "open order" configuration whereas in the "closed order" there would be no gaps between the files BUT(on reflection), if in the "closed order" the ranks were only 3 feet apart, it would be impossible to transition into "open order" as the alternate files would in fact step into the row behind them filling the gap that the previous soldier had just vacated therefore making those rows "closed order" again
Although I am not that familiar with Polybius - looking at the the post that Mons Graupius quotes, I think that it says "and each man must be at a distance of at least three feet from the man next him in the same rank and those in front of and behind him, if they are to be of proper use." .
So is he saying that if they are too close they are not as effective?
By having the ranks in "closed order" at 9 feet that allows for the transition back and forth and also allows for a rotation of men in either configuration through the gaps left.
I am beginning to realise that it must have been the ability to take the fighter out of the battle to recover, a fresh man to take his place in the line and then relieve the fighter again and the get the rested man back into battle in a structured manner.
In this way a man could fight at full exertion for say 10 minutes and in an 8 rank closed order configuration could have an hour's rest between bouts.
I think that it was the strength of the army born out of discipline. Effectively the Roman Legionaries made up a a machine of flesh and blood that could keep going long after their opponents were spent.
Interestingly Caesar notes ,that is how the chariots were used with the warrior being delivered to the front line, fighting for a while then picked up, taken to rest and then re-inserted into the fray.
The principle was the same just that the Roman Army was far better at it.
Why are they 9 feet apart? Polybius (and you, in fact!) says there were three feet between ranks, just as there are between files in 'open order'.
I agree that the files are 3 feet apart in the "open order" configuration whereas in the "closed order" there would be no gaps between the files BUT(on reflection), if in the "closed order" the ranks were only 3 feet apart, it would be impossible to transition into "open order" as the alternate files would in fact step into the row behind them filling the gap that the previous soldier had just vacated therefore making those rows "closed order" again
Although I am not that familiar with Polybius - looking at the the post that Mons Graupius quotes, I think that it says "and each man must be at a distance of at least three feet from the man next him in the same rank and those in front of and behind him, if they are to be of proper use." .
So is he saying that if they are too close they are not as effective?
By having the ranks in "closed order" at 9 feet that allows for the transition back and forth and also allows for a rotation of men in either configuration through the gaps left.
I am beginning to realise that it must have been the ability to take the fighter out of the battle to recover, a fresh man to take his place in the line and then relieve the fighter again and the get the rested man back into battle in a structured manner.
In this way a man could fight at full exertion for say 10 minutes and in an 8 rank closed order configuration could have an hour's rest between bouts.
I think that it was the strength of the army born out of discipline. Effectively the Roman Legionaries made up a a machine of flesh and blood that could keep going long after their opponents were spent.
Interestingly Caesar notes ,that is how the chariots were used with the warrior being delivered to the front line, fighting for a while then picked up, taken to rest and then re-inserted into the fray.
The principle was the same just that the Roman Army was far better at it.
Deryk
