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spartan army at Mantinea 418 BC
#62
Quote:Finally we come to the mysterious Hypomeiones, mentioned only once (Xen Hellenica III.6) which seems to be a generic term for those Spartans not Homioi or helots.. The abortive revolutionary Kinadon, who did not want to be 'inferior' to anyone in Sparta was likely one of these. Busolt suggested Hypomeiones included Homioi who through poverty, or some other reason lost their membership and priveleges of the syssitia/messes.


I admit to thinking that this was settled, that Hypomeiones were disenfranchised Spartiates who can't make their mess payments and lose their Kleroi. Interestingly as the number of Spartiates dropped, only some through death, the number of Hypomeiones must have risen. I can't imagine that these men did not join the ranks, especially since many would have trained in the agoge. There seems to be no way out of inferior status by the way, though your children can at least be Mothakes.

Thus when the number of citizens drops over time and we see a dwindling number of Spartiates, it does not mean that the number of "spartans" is declining at the same rate. One might argue that the birth rate of Hypomeiones would increase, since the need to minimize offspring who would split inheritance is alleviated.

Quote:Paul's post opened another thought:


That guys a genius- he deserves some Laudes!

Quote:Furthermore, these did not serve together, but were apparently distributed among all the Morai, as is evidenced by the Lechaeum incident (Xen Hellenica IV. 5 ff) Agesilaos releases all the 'Amyclaeans'(from the perioikoi town of Amyclae) " ..out of all his army.." on leave to celebrate the Hyacinthia festival.


Amyclae seems to have a history with Sparta above the other Perioic towns doesn't it?

Quote:In addition, the fact that the Skiritai formed a lochos of their own implies other perioikoi did not....

Perhaps, but the fact that they are usually off on the other end of the battle line and could form a lochos of themselves, would both contribute to their being singled out.

Quote:Which brings us to Paul's second passage which to most is quite conclusive - Isocrates specifically says they served "man for man side by side with themselves"


The Spartan Cavalry were Perioikoi lead by Spartan officers. I can imagine the above quote meaning no more than this. One could have said of Pershing and other white officers that they served "side by side" with African-american troops. Just playing devil's advocate.

Quote:and even "some they stationed in the first rank"....


I admit to being a bit stymied by that remark. Even the integration models don't put them in front of Spartan troops.

Quote:For myself, I believe overall that the evidence is sufficiently strong that perioikoi came to serve in the Morai, but that exactly when, and in what numbers, is blurred by the fact that there are other classes of non-Homioi who will also have served in the citizen Morai, such as Hypomeiones/inferiors. (Helots who served as hoplites evidently did so in separate units such as the Brasidioi or Neo-damodeis)

I am far less sure of how Homioi, Hypomeiones, and Periokoi were arrayed than I was before this thread started :wink: I Think within the Morai sounds likely, but within Enomotia, thus succesive ranks, I still doubt.
Paul M. Bardunias
MODERATOR: [url:2dqwu8yc]http://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/viewtopic.php?t=4100[/url]
A Spartan, being asked a question, answered "No." And when the questioner said, "You lie," the Spartan said, "You see, then, that it is stupid of you to ask questions to which you already know the answer!"
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Messages In This Thread
spartan army at Mantinea 418 BC - by Marcvs75 - 04-08-2008, 10:55 AM
Re: spartan army at Mantinea 418 BC - by Paralus - 04-09-2008, 05:14 AM
Re: spartan army at Mantinea 418 BC - by Marcvs75 - 04-11-2008, 05:16 PM
Re: spartan army at Mantinea 418 BC - by Paralus - 04-14-2008, 08:20 AM
Re: spartan army at Mantinea 418 BC - by Marcvs75 - 04-14-2008, 10:03 AM
Re: spartan army at Mantinea 418 BC - by Paralus - 04-14-2008, 11:31 AM
Re: spartan army at Mantinea 418 BC - by Marcvs75 - 04-14-2008, 12:24 PM
Re: spartan army at Mantinea 418 BC - by Marcvs75 - 04-14-2008, 04:17 PM
Re: spartan army at Mantinea 418 BC - by Marcvs75 - 04-14-2008, 08:21 PM
Re: spartan army at Mantinea 418 BC - by Paralus - 04-14-2008, 09:57 PM
Re: spartan army at Mantinea 418 BC - by Marcvs75 - 04-14-2008, 10:18 PM
Re: spartan army at Mantinea 418 BC - by Paralus - 04-14-2008, 10:37 PM
Re: spartan army at Mantinea 418 BC - by Paralus - 04-15-2008, 03:29 AM
Mantinea 418 BC - by Paullus Scipio - 04-15-2008, 04:14 AM
Mantinea 418 BC - by Paullus Scipio - 04-15-2008, 05:40 AM
Re: spartan army at Mantinea 418 BC - by Marcvs75 - 04-15-2008, 09:14 AM
Re: spartan army at Mantinea 418 BC - by Paralus - 04-15-2008, 01:17 PM
Re: spartan army at Mantinea 418 BC - by Paralus - 04-15-2008, 10:47 PM
Re: spartan army at Mantinea 418 BC - by Marcvs75 - 04-15-2008, 11:46 PM
Re: spartan army at Mantinea 418 BC - by Paralus - 04-16-2008, 01:11 AM
Re: spartan army at Mantinea 418 BC - by Paralus - 04-21-2008, 07:50 AM
Spartan numbers at Mantinea - by Paullus Scipio - 04-21-2008, 10:54 PM
Re: spartan army at Mantinea 418 BC - by Paralus - 04-22-2008, 02:03 AM
Re: spartan army at Mantinea 418 BC - by Paralus - 04-22-2008, 07:19 AM
Spartans at Mantinea - by Paullus Scipio - 04-22-2008, 08:16 AM
Re: spartan army at Mantinea 418 BC - by Marcvs75 - 04-22-2008, 05:20 PM
Spartan Army at Mantinea - by Paullus Scipio - 04-24-2008, 01:34 AM
Re: spartan army at Mantinea 418 BC - by PMBardunias - 04-24-2008, 05:35 AM
Re: spartan army at Mantinea 418 BC - by Paralus - 05-20-2008, 11:59 AM

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