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Pottery depictions of warriors - Arthes - 05-16-2006
Greetings,
I have been wondering about the helms/headwear worn on this depiction of Orpheus...
and are these linothorax actually covered with bronze scales.....or at least Achille's....?
Re: Pottery depictions of warriors - Jason Hoffman - 05-16-2006
I cant comment on the headgear but the linothorax is definatley depicted as having metalic scales, very common at the time this one was painted.
Re: Pottery depictions of warriors - Comerus Gallus - 05-16-2006
The wounded hoplite can have a leather cap as well of linen or Jewish Yamaka according to sekunda...
Helmet can be painted in scales... The linothoraxes in my opinion is more obious to be bronze scales, than hand free paint...
Head gear below of the thracian guys can be of Raccon in my opinion, because I have one head gear too, Fox have thick tail but not with the lines like that...
Example: http://www.taxidermy4cash.com/raccon.JPG
http://www.mainerivers.org/images/species/fox.jpg
BTW: I always wondered, why if the Chalcidian with hinged cheek piece were so popular than corinthian helmet in vases greek art, why there is not evidence of those helmet today? except few in Italy?
Re: Pottery depictions of warriors - Anonymous - 05-16-2006
I agree that the audience appear to be Thracians and would therefore be wearing fox-fur caps. I also agree that they LOOK more like raccoon. However, there are NO raccoons in Europe today (despite Disney sticking them in "1o1 Dalmatians" - blasted ignoramus. AND some British plonker put them in as a British species in a drama. Well, bang went my voluntary suspension of disbelief, I can tell you...rant, moan) and I don't believe there were then. I think the apparent banding on the tail may be an artistic convention.
On the helmets, I would think it's another convention - one that allows the warrior to be depicted with helmet on without hiding the face. Are there many depictions of Chalkidians with fixed cheekpieces?
Re: Pottery depictions of warriors - Comerus Gallus - 05-16-2006
Quote:Are there many depictions of Chalkidians with fixed cheekpieces?
Yes I think I have many of them! :wink:
Re: Pottery depictions of warriors - Anonymous - 05-16-2006
I'm from Missouri, not Ohio... :wink:
Re: Pottery depictions of warriors - Comerus Gallus - 05-16-2006
Quote:I'm from Missouri, not Ohio... :wink:
What do you meant? :lol:
Well watching my book of Red figure Vases, also was numerus Chalcidian helmet without cheek pieces among hoplites & goddes Athena.
I may post them in other thread.... So I think I would buy the chalcidian helm with cheek piece that I show you!....
Re: Pottery depictions of warriors - hoplite14gr - 05-16-2006
Flora and fauna of Greece was substantialy different in ancient times but no racoons on even fosilised remains have been found.
There is still a type of gray fox with "rings" in her tail, saddly almost extinct now. The Thracian are probably the "fox-capped" Odrussae.
Their King Sitalkes had good relation with the Athenians and their "zeirae" have the designs ussualy assosciated with the Odryssae.
It was like tartan to the Celts these designs.
Headgear can also be red felt cup.
My interpretation of the headgear you will se in Watford
Kind regards
Re: Pottery depictions of warriors - Dan Diffendale - 05-16-2006
Quote:I always wondered, why if the Chalcidian with hinged cheek piece were so popular than corinthian helmet in vases greek art, why there is not evidence of those helmet today? except few in Italy?
I think the frequent appearance of the Chalcidian-type helmet on Attic red-figure pottery can be attributed in part to the fact that it doesn't obscure the face, as Paul already mentioned.
One of the reasons it doesn't turn up in Greece archaeologically, I think, is because the Greeks stopped burying their dead with their armor while (non-Roman) Italians continued to do so. Most of our provenanced helmets from Italy were either deposited in graves or dedicated at sanctuaries. As an aside, there were more than a few found in Italy, but they also show up all over the Balkans and Scythia -- again regions on the fringe of the Greek world where the dead were buried with their armor. I think that, had the Greeks continued to bury armed men, we would see Chalcidian helmets in mainland Greece.
The big cache of Corinthian-type helmets from Olympia came from fill: apparently when the sanctuary had filled up, they buried some of the older dedications to make room.
Re: Pottery depictions of warriors - Anonymous - 05-17-2006
Hang on, though, Dan. If so many finds of Corinthian helemets are of dedications and not grave goods, why are there (apparently) no dedications of Chalcidians?