Roman Officer and/or Praetorian Helmet

Roman Officer and/or Praetorian Helmet - Printable Version

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Roman Officer and/or Praetorian Helmet - Anonymous - 04-21-2005

On the "Muscle Cuirass: Iron or Bronze" thread, we were discussing Roman use of the so-called Attic helmet (i.e., officer, Praetorian, Hollywood, etc.) as well. This topic probably deserves it's own thread, so here it is. The question that seemed to generate the most interest was, "did the Romans (officers and/or Praetorians) ever really use an Attic helmet with a seperate visor, as is depicted most famously on the Louvre frieze? While the so-called Vigiles helmet, with it's integral visor, has been uncovered, the seperate-visored variant has not.

At least, not entirely. Shown in Robinson (plates 417-420, p.138) is an often-overlooked atifact which does in fact appear to be the elusive seperate visor. Robinson himself entitled this piece, "Brow-plate from an Attic-type helmet, probably for an officer, early 2nd Century AD" (it's currently in the Rijksmuseum van Oudheden, Leiden). It has a beaded outline which either takes the place of an applied trim, or is reverse-punched onto the trim itself. It has laurel leaves depicted in the typical Roman fashion. It has three raised images, of which the center one vaguely resembling the Emperor Trajan, IMHO. At either end, there is clearly a mounting hole, though it is innocuously punched through the lower edge, rather than being centered in a flaring, round end (as seen on modern reproductions and some films).

Contrary to thoughts of "combat effectiveness", this particular piece appears quite thin, and seems to have been built for decoration rather than to withstand blunt force trauma. (But of course, the officer who wore this type of helmet was probably a bit older, and not exactly on the front line.)

Submitted for your consideration:

[Image: atticvisor.jpg]

Severus

EDIT: that should work now - Dan

hmm... - Anonymous - 04-21-2005

My, how anti-climactic. Perhaps the file was too big to post properly...? Sadly, I'll have to go home to my photo-editing porogram and crop it down before reposting it, which won't be for several hours.

The suspense continues!

clean version... - Anonymous - 04-22-2005

Thanks, Dan! The initial scan was pretty grubby, so I cleaned it up a bit, and sharpened the contrast to bring out the detail of the piece:

[Image: VISORTWO0copy2.jpg]

Comments?

Attic helmet - Theodosius the Great - 04-22-2005

Ave, Severus.

Wow, you weren't kindding when you said it looks like it came straight from the Louvre relief :o .

Do we know if it's iron or bronze ?

That's a fantastic piece. Now we have evidence other than sculptural to suggest that Attics were used.

Thanks for posting it ! Well worth the wait ! Big Grin

Browband from a Weiler type, I think.. - Antonius Lucretius - 04-22-2005

Sorry to be a killjoy, but this does not look like the Louvre helmets: it is not pointed at the top. My bet --again it is a bet-- is that it's a browband from a Weiler type..[url:1pe6uq0r]http://www.romancoins.info/MilitaryEquipment-Facemasks.html[/url]

Note that the shape of this browband is similar to that one (Third pix down, on the left) including as far as a can see the rivet holes exaclty at the same place and maybe used to hold both the browplate and the front end of the earguards.
Again, the familiar probable military award is shown on the piece: the bust of an emperor surrounded by a laureate crown, like on the more luxurious Xanted-Ward example.
The piece shown on the link is a masked helmet but I don't think masked helmets can be put in one single category. I think there were masks for helmets --any type from the Weiler to the Weisenau-- and true masked helmets like the weird "amazon" types found at Straubing and other even weirder than these..

Re: Roman Officer and/or Praetorian Helmet - Theodosius the Great - 04-22-2005

A couple of differences I see :

I don't see a hinge piece in the middle of Robinson's plate like on the Weiler plate.

Also, the figures on the Weiler piece project out FAR more than on Robinson's.

Re: Roman Officer and/or Praetorian Helmet - Anonymous - 04-23-2005

You may both be right. Antonius' Weiler type browguard option certainly looks possible... the part about the ear-hole rivet holes is especially convincing. Theo is right as well, the distinctive bracket attachment is missing... there is a solder-mark where it may have been, but it's quite off-center if so, making it unlikely. And of course there are those grotesque appliques.

For the record, here's a pic of the Louvre Praetorians.

[Image: PraeGdereliefcopy.jpg]

It's known that the heads of the figure(s) in the foreground were restored in the Middle Ages. The figure furthest back, however, was presumably not. And on that particular helmet, there seems to be be (a) no point on the browguard, and (b) no distinctly flared end near the ear, as with the restored ones. The overall shape appears to match the Robinson one fairly closely.

Here's another thought: the general shape of the legionary browguards on Imperial Gallic helmets (as well as handles, earguards, some decorative elements) were usually quite similar, if not identical at times, although the helmets themselves were found in very different locations and/or time periods, and were even given different classifications by Robinson. The Romans had thus standardized the production of army field equipment to a shockingly modern degree. Is it possible, therefore, that a browguard such as this one may have seen similar use on somewhat different helmet designs as well? "Cavalry helm", "parade helm", "officer helm", [and in some cases] "Praetorian helm"... these terms are, after all, quite nebulous, depending on who the expert is classifying them at any one time.

Severus

:( - Anonymous - 04-23-2005

Wow, this image not showing for no apparent reason thing really sucks. :?

Re: Roman Officer and/or Praetorian Helmet - Praefectusclassis - 04-23-2005

Fixed. Reason: there was a close-image tag [/img] where there should have been an open-image one (without /).

Robinsons\'s browguard - Antonius Lucretius - 04-23-2005

If there was ever a hinge on the helmet decorated with that browguard it was certainly on the helmet itself, not one that thin piece obviously used as decoration only, I think..
And yes, the decoration is different, but the general shape of the piece is similar.
..And yes, the more I look at that Louvre relief --and even more on the later trajanic reliefs re-used on Constantine's arch, the more I think these helmets are Guisborough types.
My PC at home is FUBAR, so I can't scan and put pictures in here for the moment, but for those who have the book, check out Michel FeugÃƒÆ’Ã‚Â¨re's "Casques Antiques". There is a whole series of Guisboroughs there, including one found in Romania that looks uncannily like the trajanic and the Louvre reliefs. There is also a picture of an "attic" style scalloped cheekguard similar to the cheekguards of the "vigile" helmet with the difference that it is decorated with a classic "gold on silver" eagle holding a wreath.
The fist time I saw that cheek piece I went "wow! the praetorians!". It can only be associated with a Guisborough, or neo-attic type. And if you mount one of those scalloped cheekpieces on a Guisborough type, instead of the ear covering "cavaly" cheekpieces, what you get is a true praetorian helm..
What is pretty certain too is that the praetorians, who were Romans of Rome, had the financial means to have a decoration of a much higher quality than the one found on existing Guisboroughs. As far as this goes I am thinking of a style of decoration on the lines of the magnificent masked helmet found in Syria, with the neckguard decorated with flowery scrolls in the purest classical style.[url:2afn2s9e]http://www.syriamuseum.com/homs/[/url]

Re: Roman Officer and/or Praetorian Helmet - Anonymous - 04-25-2005

Quote:If there was ever a hinge on the helmet decorated with that browguard it was certainly on the helmet itself, not one that thin piece obviously used as decoration only, I think..

On the Guisborogh example you site as a possible match, though, the hinge (half of it, obviously) is in fact on the thin decorative browguard.

While I was unfortunately unable to locate a copy of the Feugere book, but I spent some time looking at the Guisborogh helmets shown in Robinson, and I think you have some interesting ideas.

One thing is certain at this point: the browguards on the Hollywood versions (and the repros) is simply way too tall. Whether it's the Guisborogh, the integrals (e.g., the vigiles helm) or the myriad of praetorian helmets shown on monuments, reliefs, etc. (most of which do look to be of the integral type upon close inspection), the browguard is fairly short.

With this in mind, and to see what it would look like, I chopped down a Valentine Armories visor to see how it would look (see below). The answer: a lot better! At least IMO. Naturally the decoration is now screwed up, but I'll just make a new one from scratch... still plan on fooling with the size a bit more before I do.

The far bigger problem now is the almost complete lack of the back "swoop" on all modern reproductions. Inexplicably, even Toni Feldon's versions lack this distinctive shape. On the cut-down visored helmet below, I cut some of the neckguard off as well, and am going to attempt adding the swoop, using heat, a wooden last (back of the head shape), and some neoprene hammers. We'll see how that goes.

Thanks for the input about the Guisborogh helmets, Antonius! And if you're ever able to scan/post a pic or two, please do.

Vale,
Severus

[Image: cutdownbrowguard.jpg]

Browguards and swoops - Antonius Lucretius - 04-25-2005

You're very welcome Gaius. You're getting there with the modifications, I think. a swoop similar to the Homs helmet would make it better, as well as the definitive removal of any cutout for the face like shown on the reliefs. We know now that it was done in order to show the soldier face and not helmet featuring that cutout was found, as far as I know.
But you'll still be left with that separate browguard...
Another thing I just noticed about the Louvre relief: if you look closely at the helmet on the back --the only authentic one-- you'll notice that there is a straight horizontal line between the apex of the browguard and the front end of the crest holder, exactly like the Guisborough types. However, the sculpture is old enough and damaged enough, so...
One more point about the browguard: if it wasn't made integral with the helmet it would defeat its purpose, which was obviously to reinforce the brow area, like the reinforcing "visors" of regular legionary helmets.
...Honestly, I've been trying to make a sketch on one of the praetorians from the Louvre for about ten years.. Not yet happy about it.. :roll:
Methinks those helmets were "bespoke" helms, as they say in Savile Row..
..For the non british persons, "bespoke" means custom made.. Big Grin

And Savile Row is the place where the best bespoke suits come from.

Re: Roman Officer and/or Praetorian Helmet - Praefectusclassis - 04-25-2005

Hi Antonius,
IÃ‚Â´ve got a working scanner & Casques Antiques here. Which page do you need to illustrate your argument?

FeugÃƒÂ¨re - Antonius Lucretius - 04-27-2005

Yep Jasper. Here it goes:
The helmet is on page 112 (Celate Razboieni helmet) Very similar to the Louvre helmets and a dead ringer with the helmets seen on the re-used trajanic reliefs on Constantine's arch.
The cheek guard is on page 114 ("aigle apportant la couronne de la victoire")
You mount this cheek guard on that helmet and you get a "praetorian" helmet.
However I suspect the praetorians themselves sported more luxurious examples of that type and I "see" them decorated in the classical style, much like the Homs or Xanten-ward pieces with floral scrolls, finely detailed finish and maybe silvering with real silver.
Another however: in all fairness I have to recognize that separate construction of the visor existed as seen in the hellenistic helmet on page 33.
So, a possibility would be that the same type of helmet --the "neo-attic/Guisborough" type-- was made by armourers following different traditions.
But in all cases, the visor did not look like the Hollywood version of the type and was always either integral with the helmet as in the Guisborough type, or solidly riveted on like the example of page 32...And I think the Guttmann sales had one too.. It maybe in here somewhere.

Re: Roman Officer and/or Praetorian Helmet - Praefectusclassis - 04-27-2005

Here ya go. Top to bottom p.32, 33, 112, 114.
[Image: feugere32.jpg]