Spartan game of Othismos - Printable Version +- RomanArmyTalk (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat) +-- Forum: Research Arena (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/forumdisplay.php?fid=4) +--- Forum: Greek Military History & Archaeology (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/forumdisplay.php?fid=9) +--- Thread: Spartan game of Othismos (/showthread.php?tid=16817) |
Spartan game of Othismos - PMBardunias - 05-06-2010 I have moved this over from another thread, since it deserves its own discussion. Pausanian and Cicero tell us of a game played by the boys of Sparta wich surely bears a great deal of resemblence to what occurred during the pushing phase of phalanx combat. Quote:Paus. 3.14 Clearly there is no weapon involved and to suggest that the boys did not physically push en masse is being a bit obstinate in my opinion. They are fighting in very close- biting range- and the one word, ?????-??, that some have translated as a longer range kick appears to not be that at all. Stephanos pointed out that it means more of a "charge", and I think in this context the meaning can be seen to be smashing into or seeking to bear down another boy. Essentially man on man pushing, which is a local event and then he describes the whole group 'pushing" which is othismos- without a safetly net! So maybe not much more freedom of movement, epecially if this occurred rather early on in the contest. Here it is translated as "push" (Plb. 12.8) : Quote:The epithets which he applies to him are "audacious,"The vulgar abuse of Timaeus. And here "spring upon": Quote:Hdt. 3.32 Quote:Here's the LSJ entry with some other instances of its use: I only know of this from Pausanias and Cicero. Pausanias mentions Lygurgus as setting the rules, but perhaps he means in a more general way for conflict between boys, not the specific rules for this contest. Because of this I do not know if the contest took the form it did in the many centuries prior to these references. Since the aspis was not used in their day, I would not expect it in this contest, but I wonder if it once was. Like the whipping of Spartan boys half to death that grew from the cheese race into an almost pornographic violence fest for the visiting Romans, perhaps this became more deadly too. Can you guys think of any other references to this game? Re: Spartan game of Othismos - Paralus - 05-07-2010 Quote:I only know of this from Pausanias and Cicero. Pausanias mentions Lygurgus as setting the rules, but perhaps he means in a more general way for conflict between boys, not the specific rules for this contest. Because of this I do not know if the contest took the form it did in the many centuries prior to these references. Since the aspis was not used in their day, I would not expect it in this contest, but I wonder if it once was. Like the whipping of Spartan boys half to death that grew from the cheese race into an almost pornographic violence fest for the visiting Romans, perhaps this became more deadly too. As you've alluded to, it might be ill-advised to draw too much from holiday memories of Lycurgusland™. That a non-Spartan cynic philosopher (Sphaerus) was commissioned to advise upon and reconstruct the agoge in the late third century is eloquent comment on just what Spartans knew of (or wanted to know of) the ancient ways. Re: Spartan game of Othismos - PMBardunias - 05-07-2010 Caution is warranted, but I don't think it was created out of whole cloth in the reign of Cleomenes or later. The puppy sacrifice is so odd and atypically greek that it appears to me like one of those things that we see in early Sparta that stand out as different and often asiatic. Those Phoenician-looking clay masks for example. Re: Spartan game of Othismos - hoplite14gr - 05-08-2010 I have a reason to believe that the game was actually old. Enyalios (title of Ares or kin of Ares) was the war god of Bronze Age Pelopolessians. Pylos tables talk of Enu-far-jios: phonetic for Enyalios. Kind regards |