+- RomanArmyTalk (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat)
+-- Forum: Research Arena (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Forum: Greek Military History & Archaeology (https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/forumdisplay.php?fid=9)
+--- Thread: Picture of an archer - identification (/showthread.php?tid=10840)
Picture of an archer - identification - geala - 11-01-2007
Hello,
does somebody know from what time and context is the following picture of a Greek (?) archer?
A question to all and especially to Comerus Gallus Romus who postet the picture on p. 2 ( http://www.romanarmy.com/rat/viewtopic. ... 0&start=20 ) of the "Psiloi" thread.
We don't need to discuss the true nature of his overgarment :wink: , I'm mainly interested in the timeframe and wether it is really a Greek. From the pilos cap or helmet I think he is.
Re: Picture of an archer - identification - Dan Diffendale - 11-01-2007
Off the top of my head, I'm pretty sure that's Apulian red-figure krater in the Louvre showing a mythological scene, maybe Theseus (above the archer)? I can't seem to pull it up in the Beazley archive at the moment... I think I have a picture of the entire vase at home with info, so let me get back to you (or somebody who knows their Italiote wares better than I can correct me in the mean time).
I'd warn against identifying a figure as 'Greek' based on the pilos-type helmet.
Re: Picture of an archer - identification - Giannis K. Hoplite - 11-01-2007
He must be a Greek. It's an Amazonomachy scene.What else,given he's not an Amazon? Did Theseus have a non Greek companion?
Khairete
Giannis
Re: Picture of an archer - identification - Dan Diffendale - 11-01-2007
Ah-ha! Not the Louvre, but British Museum, GR 1856.12-26.3 (Cat. Vases F 158), Former Temple Collection -- Apulian red-figured volute-krater, ca. 410–400 BC. From Ruvo (in northern Apulia).
Quote:He must be a Greek. It's an Amazonomachy scene.What else,given he's not an Amazon? Did Theseus have a non Greek companion?Yes, but he's a Greek wearing what looks like what might be "native" Italic clothing...
Re: Picture of an archer - identification - geala - 11-02-2007
Thank you very much. I did not expect such a prompt and satisfactory reply.
The question should then be, who made the vase and where? Was it imported from Greece or locally made?
If the latter is true, local dress is a probability. But it could be Greek too, a chiton, a jerkin (of leather?), a pilos cap/helmet. Also Greek archers were sometimes depicted with shoes. The quiver however looks rather strange for me.
Re: Picture of an archer - identification - hoplite14gr - 11-02-2007
Apoulian colonies were composed from residents of various mainland city states. Here for instance we see a shield device from Elefsina.
The archer is wearing a doric pilos.
People identify images from the clothing but we canot rule out the possibilty that the artist had seen a Greek archer incorporating "foreign" items in his kit or a "barbarian" archer incorporating "Greek" items on his kit.
Please remember also that the colonies employed large numbers of mercenaries.
Kind regards
Re: Picture of an archer - identification - Dan Diffendale - 11-02-2007
Quote:The question should then be, who made the vase and where? Was it imported from Greece or locally made?Sorry, I should have specified -- "Apulian" means it was made in Apulia, southern Italy, perhaps in Taranto or near Canosa. I'm not sure if the painter has been identified for this particular vase.
Quote:Here for instance we see a shield device from Elefsina.I'm skeptical about the ability to tie shield devices to particular cities or regions... when will it be published?
Quote:The archer is wearing a doric pilos.What makes it "Doric"?
Re: Picture of an archer - identification - hoplite14gr - 11-03-2007
I use "Doric" the same way "phrygian" is used. Just to describe it
The more neutral would be conical headgear.
Hopefully Jasper will publish my article on the marines and some shield devices woud be included there with their sources.
Kind regards